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Maryluvs Message Board > Intellect's Forum > Arlen Specter Jumps Ship


Posted by: Mary Poppins Apr 28 2009, 04:25 PM
WASHINGTON - Veteran Republican Sen. Arlen Specter disclosed plans Tuesday to switch parties, bringing Democrats closer to the 60-vote supermajority they need to push Barack Obama's agenda through the Senate.

"This is a painful decision," said Specter at a Tuesday afternoon news conference. "I know that I'm disappointing a lot of my friends and colleagues...the disappointment runs in both directions."

Specter would give Democrats and their allies at least 59 Senate seats. One vacancy remains from the state of Minnesota, where Democrat Al Franken holds a narrow lead in a race being disputed in courts.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30456741?GT1=43001


Posted by: Code Orange May 1 2009, 05:41 PM
Interesting. Wish that dude in Minnesotta would just give it up. It's been like 7 months. Had this been a Democrat or someone like Gore pulling this, the GOP and media would have been screaming "Sore Loser" nonstop.

Posted by: Wee Tony May 1 2009, 05:49 PM
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 1 2009, 10:31 PM)
Interesting. Wish that dude in Minnesotta would just give it up. It's been like 7 months. Had this been a Democrat or someone like Gore pulling this, the GOP and media would have been screaming "Sore Loser" nonstop.

It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen. It has tainted my opinion of him.

Posted by: Code Orange May 2 2009, 04:10 AM
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 1 2009, 04:39 PM)
It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen.  It has tainted my opinion of him.

ohmy.gif Really? I like the work he is doing on the environment. I don't understand what else could he have done. Sure, he could have counted the entire state of Florida, but what could he do if his party wouldn't back him up? And after the SC rulling, I don't think there were other options (or were there?)

I like him more now that he is out of politics.

Posted by: No One Will Do May 2 2009, 02:41 PM
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 1 2009, 04:39 PM)
It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen.  It has tainted my opinion of him.

maryluvs_excl.gif I love Al but was pissed at him back then.. maryluvs_laughing.gif It just seemed as though he was discombobulated on what to do; President Clinton advised him on how he shoulda proceeded basically to fight anyway I was mad at Kerry for a long time for the same reasons but I'm over both now.

Posted by: Code Orange May 2 2009, 05:54 PM
Self-delete. Misunderstood and cleared. maryluvs_bye2.gif

Posted by: No One Will Do May 3 2009, 04:03 AM
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 2 2009, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 2 2009, 01:31 PM)
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 1 2009, 04:39 PM)
It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen.  It has tainted my opinion of him.

maryluvs_excl.gif I love Al but was pissed at him back then.. maryluvs_laughing.gif It just seemed as though he was discombobulated on what to do; President Clinton advised him on how he shoulda proceeded basically to fight anyway I was mad at Kerry for a long time for the same reasons but I'm over both now.


First of all, I respectfully disagree with both points.

I just don't understand what Gore and Kerry were to do. Gore took it to the SC and asked that no senator challenge the results. The Kerry/Edwards campaign stayed involved in the Ohio lawsuits.

What were they supposed to do if the Democratic Party wouldn't support them or back them up? The big difference is that Democrats (like Kerry, et. al) stood with Obama unlike the last two times (i.e. many sided with Bush), and the GOP was/is at an all time low. People are not buying the media lies/spin or smear campaigns anymore.

They would have been left out on their own and slaughtered by their party and media as sore losers or angry nutcases. Plus, they were stuck with a disorganized party infrastructure and people (Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, Team Clinton) who were more focused on Hillary running in 08 than winning. Thankfully, Obama had a DNC Chairman in Dean who focused rebuilding the party infrastructure (both local/state level) and protecting, securing the vote.

I didn't like the concessions either, but I still don't understand why people are letting the entire Democratic Party, McAuliffe, Carville, etc, off the hook and blaming ONLY Gore and Kerry. They failed the party and the voters.

I am getting a little tired of those talking points and revisionist history being repeated.

In addition to all his talents, Obama is now president because he had easier path to the WH. Thanks to DNC head Dean rebuilding state and local party infrastructure, Democrats winning seats in 2006, and a public fed up with everything GOP.

Those are the facts period.


Like it or not, Kerry is positioned to be an influential senator (crafting foreign policy as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee), and a top ally to President Obama.

I am glad that he and his wife Teresa care enough to focus on aid and peace in Darfur.

I am glad that Gore cares enough about our planet and climate change.

I am glad that First Lady Michelle Obama cares enough about Youthbuild making a difference in young people's lives.

I am glad President Obama cares enough to see high speed rail as the new transportation in America (just like in Europe).

Yep. The Obamas are so over Gore and Kerry. Really.


Sorry, Kerry is not going away. Neither is Gore. They may not have Obama and/or Biden's cool, rock star personalities, or act like attention whores (like a former Dem president), but I appreciate them having the "balls" to endure one of the worst smear campaigns in history, media hit jobs, and NO Democratic party support to get back up, work hard, keep fighting for what's right, and help to make this country better again.

That is called integrity and it is sad that people do not recognize or see that.

That's funny. McCain lost in a landslide, yet he gets treated like a king by members of his own party, the media, and Obama himself, while Gore and Kerry, who lost by only one vote and one state (Florida and Ohio) are continuously treated like trash by their own party and media. No one has told McCain to "lay low" or said "I am over him now" just because he didn't win or do what they wanted him to do.

I am glad that Gore and Kerry are going to help President Obama out or behind the scenes. So, I am not over them just because they didn't do what I or we wanted them to do. And I will not be over Obama because he won't do what I want him to do.

NO politician is perfect, if anyone thinks that, they are doomed for disappointment.

I am not over anyone that is trying to do the right thing and help people. That is what's important right now.

Sorry people here are.

Ok, I re-read what I typed and realized it may have been interpreted differently than the spirit in which I tried to give it so I'd like to clarify. I mentioned at the beginning that I loved Al Gore, I just had a difference of opinion on how he handled the 2000 election; when I said I was over both I wasn't referring to Al or J. Kerry, I only meant I was over being mad about those situations and I had moved on not meaning from them. I still basically feel that both could handled things differently in those elections but we all have things we wish we could do-over so although I'm not mad about them or those situations anymore; I agree we can respectfully disagree on that in terms of other courses of action that could have been taken but it's water waaaay under the bridge. maryluvs_smile.gif

I know that everything happens for a reason and I absolutely respect the work that Al, John, and Teresa have and are doing; and whole heartedly agree that NO politician is perfect their just people too maryluvs_laughing.gif. Speaking of imperfect politicians my heart goes out to Elizabeth Edwards, maryluvs_sad.gif now her husband I won't go into how I would have felt had he won and all of his linen eventually came to light in the midst of a run to the White House but thank goodness the sun rises and brings a new day everyday.. maryluvs_smile.gif

Posted by: Wee Tony May 3 2009, 10:14 AM
@ Code Orange. Chill out - I think you misread the previous posts.

There's an amazing amount of straw men in your post all overreacting to something that isn't there. This isn't like you maryluvs_confused1.gif

Posted by: Code Orange May 3 2009, 06:49 PM
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 3 2009, 02:53 AM)
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 2 2009, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 2 2009, 01:31 PM)
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 1 2009, 04:39 PM)
It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen.  It has tainted my opinion of him.

maryluvs_excl.gif I love Al but was pissed at him back then.. maryluvs_laughing.gif It just seemed as though he was discombobulated on what to do; President Clinton advised him on how he shoulda proceeded basically to fight anyway I was mad at Kerry for a long time for the same reasons but I'm over both now.


First of all, I respectfully disagree with both points.

I just don't understand what Gore and Kerry were to do. Gore took it to the SC and asked that no senator challenge the results. The Kerry/Edwards campaign stayed involved in the Ohio lawsuits.

What were they supposed to do if the Democratic Party wouldn't support them or back them up? The big difference is that Democrats (like Kerry, et. al) stood with Obama unlike the last two times (i.e. many sided with Bush), and the GOP was/is at an all time low. People are not buying the media lies/spin or smear campaigns anymore.

They would have been left out on their own and slaughtered by their party and media as sore losers or angry nutcases. Plus, they were stuck with a disorganized party infrastructure and people (Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, Team Clinton) who were more focused on Hillary running in 08 than winning. Thankfully, Obama had a DNC Chairman in Dean who focused rebuilding the party infrastructure (both local/state level) and protecting, securing the vote.

I didn't like the concessions either, but I still don't understand why people are letting the entire Democratic Party, McAuliffe, Carville, etc, off the hook and blaming ONLY Gore and Kerry. They failed the party and the voters.

I am getting a little tired of those talking points and revisionist history being repeated.

In addition to all his talents, Obama is now president because he had easier path to the WH. Thanks to DNC head Dean rebuilding state and local party infrastructure, Democrats winning seats in 2006, and a public fed up with everything GOP.

Those are the facts period.


Like it or not, Kerry is positioned to be an influential senator (crafting foreign policy as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee), and a top ally to President Obama.

I am glad that he and his wife Teresa care enough to focus on aid and peace in Darfur.

I am glad that Gore cares enough about our planet and climate change.

I am glad that First Lady Michelle Obama cares enough about Youthbuild making a difference in young people's lives.

I am glad President Obama cares enough to see high speed rail as the new transportation in America (just like in Europe).

Yep. The Obamas are so over Gore and Kerry. Really.


Sorry, Kerry is not going away. Neither is Gore. They may not have Obama and/or Biden's cool, rock star personalities, or act like attention whores (like a former Dem president), but I appreciate them having the "balls" to endure one of the worst smear campaigns in history, media hit jobs, and NO Democratic party support to get back up, work hard, keep fighting for what's right, and help to make this country better again.

That is called integrity and it is sad that people do not recognize or see that.

That's funny. McCain lost in a landslide, yet he gets treated like a king by members of his own party, the media, and Obama himself, while Gore and Kerry, who lost by only one vote and one state (Florida and Ohio) are continuously treated like trash by their own party and media. No one has told McCain to "lay low" or said "I am over him now" just because he didn't win or do what they wanted him to do.

I am glad that Gore and Kerry are going to help President Obama out or behind the scenes. So, I am not over them just because they didn't do what I or we wanted them to do. And I will not be over Obama because he won't do what I want him to do.

NO politician is perfect, if anyone thinks that, they are doomed for disappointment.

I am not over anyone that is trying to do the right thing and help people. That is what's important right now.

Sorry people here are.

Ok, I re-read what I typed and realized it may have been interpreted differently than the spirit in which I tried to give it so I'd like to clarify. I mentioned at the beginning that I loved Al Gore, I just had a difference of opinion on how he handled the 2000 election; when I said I was over both I wasn't referring to Al or J. Kerry, I only meant I was over being mad about those situations and I had moved on not meaning from them. I still basically feel that both could handled things differently in those elections but we all have things we wish we could do-over so although I'm not mad about them or those situations anymore; I agree we can respectfully disagree on that in terms of other courses of action that could have been taken but it's water waaaay under the bridge. maryluvs_smile.gif

I know that everything happens for a reason and I absolutely respect the work that Al, John, and Teresa have and are doing; and whole heartedly agree that NO politician is perfect their just people too maryluvs_laughing.gif. Speaking of imperfect politicians my heart goes out to Elizabeth Edwards, maryluvs_sad.gif now her husband I won't go into how I would have felt had he won and all of his linen eventually came to light in the midst of a run to the White House but thank goodness the sun rises and brings a new day everyday.. maryluvs_smile.gif

Hi Kiki,

I am so sorry for taking you and Tony's comments out of context.

I usually don't vent like that. I am thin-skinned (and trying to get help for that problem).

I was reacting to a poster (a Clinton supporter) at a popular Democratic, Progressive message board (not Daily Kos or Jack & Jill Politics) who mentioned that Barack and Hillary showed that they really wanted the presidency bad enough and Al and John did not. There was a poster that spent time on the ground in 04 and smacked that argument down. Gore or Kerry would not have campaigned sick or late in to election eve night if they didn't want it. I understand the Skulls and Bones theories people believe about Kerry "throwing the election."

I hear a lot of people still complain about will never forgiving one or the other for walking away, yet turn around and support others that have been silent on the issue of voting rights, election protection.

I saw C-SPAN and a different picture that the mainstream cable news media didn't show. And people who were on the ground attending the rallies saw energy and enthusiasm from the candidates.

I took that posters comment (not yours. maryluvs_smile.gif) as a slam on Gore and Kerry in an effort to praise Hillary and Obama.

I read a lot of those arguments from some (not all) of their supporters. Not one of them could explain how Obama could have won in 04 (even though he was running for Senate in IL) with a vaunted Rovian machine, an incumbent wartime president with an approval rating around 50%, Democrats siding with Bush or just looking towards the future, poor DNC infrastructure, and a fear-minded public post 9/11.

I will agree that winning in 04 was a longshot. And with Katrina, Iraq Civil War, the economic downturn, corruption in 06, etc. it became clear the next president was going to be a Democrat.

And even though Hillary is now Secretary of State, some of her supporters still argue that had she stayed in the Senate, she would have been a Liberal Tiger (to rival Kennedy as the Liberal Lion), but still can not name one significant legislation or decision she led on as Senator from NY. So, it was a good, political move by Obama to name her as SOS IMO.

I look at having at Gore and Kerry's "losses" and having President Obama as things happening for a reason.

Though the country is still a mess maryluvs_smh.gif, Obama is positioned to have a filabuster proof Senate (if and when they get the kinks out), nominate his first SCJ, get his agenda through a Democratic controlled congress (watch out for them Blue Dog Dems though). Plus, it allowed Americans to see how really, really bad Bush was. They are no longer buying what the GOP is selling. They now understand that Obama inherited this mess and see he is trying to fix it.

That would have been impossible for Gore or Kerry had they won, even though they would have made good presidents and many of those disasters (i.e. Katrina, etc.) wouldn't have been exposed, but Obama has a good chance to be a solid (maybe the best ever?) president. I am sure they are both satisfied to see history being made. maryluvs_smile.gif

The previous elections were hard, sometimes painful for those involved. Some mourned for days, months, even years until the next election. I agree that mistakes were made. Things could have been handled differently. Votes could have been voted differently. Words could have been spoken differently. Obama was able to learn from those mistakes and build a solid foundation.

And yes, our hearts go out to Elizabeth Edwards and the family. This sounds like a sad situation for everyone involved. maryluvs_sad.gif Thank goodness the Dem voters got it right and chose real change.

Even though I not a political junkie, I am always careful not to put politicians on a pedastal or see them as saviors. The only savior is Jesus Christ. He is bigger than any person or anything this world.

Just in case you are wondering, I am not a Gore or Kerry apologist. I was semi chastised (sometimes I got perceived as being Anti-Kerry) by people for hoping that he gets more reognition as a Senator than SOS, but it was met with "He'll be fine, so deal with it." It was from people of MA. I can understand wanting to keep him given Kennedy's health situation and all. maryluvs_sad.gif. But he, Gore, and everyone else are doing good work right now, so it's all good.


Thanks for clearing that up. Apologies for the over the top response. I will go back and edit the previous post.


I am ready to look ahead now. maryluvs_smile.gif

Posted by: Wee Tony May 3 2009, 07:00 PM
maryluvs_happy.gif If it makes you feel any better, I blame the party head honchos (not head candidates) for letting the elections be stolen - their decision would be final. The candidate would have gone along with a challenge if the party wanted it. In such things, a candidate would essentially be a puppet to their wishes.

Their decision against challenging baffled me - there was overwhelming evidence of corruption. And they wonder why people have conspiracy theories dry.gif

Posted by: Code Orange May 3 2009, 07:02 PM
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 3 2009, 09:04 AM)
@ Code Orange.  Chill out - I think you misread the previous posts.

There's an amazing amount of straw men in your post all overreacting to something that isn't there.  This isn't like you  maryluvs_confused1.gif

Tony,

No, that isn't me. Guess I am thin-skinned. (See response to Kiki above)

I went back and re-read the responses. Ok, it was an overreaction. I was reacting to what a poster at a popular political forum said and took your words out of context.

It seems like a strawman argument, but from people who were on the ground during those times saw a different view. The American media press is joke here and people still use their lies/spin to manipulate people. I just thought I would set the record straight because people still don't have an idea what non Republican politicians and President Obama are up against. maryluvs_smh.gif

I am sorry to you both for being like that. I am not an apologist or anything. If people want to criticize or have an opinion about something or someone, so be it. It's a free country, the world would be a really boring place if we all just agreed on everything.


Again, apologies.

Peace. maryluvs_smile.gif

Posted by: Code Orange May 3 2009, 07:20 PM
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 3 2009, 05:50 PM)
maryluvs_happy.gif If it makes you feel any better, I blame the party head honchos (not head candidates) for letting the elections be stolen - their decision would be final.  The candidate would have gone along with a challenge if the party wanted it.  In such things, a candidate would essentially be a puppet to their wishes.

Their decision against challenging baffled me - there was overwhelming evidence of corruption.  And they wonder why people have conspiracy theories  dry.gif

Thanks. I do agree with that scenario. The candidates took full responsibilty for their campaigns and actions.

You just have some party big wigs who are still afraid of change, even with a Dem president, the first Afro-American.

I do hope the days of Democrats apologizing to the Republicans for every little petty issue are over, but won't hold breath on that one.

Although it's a state problem, I hope President Obama makes voting rights a strong priority. I don't think he has commented much about it, or has he?

FWIW: I would have loved to see them challenge the elections. It would have made some good daytime drama. maryluvs_smile.gif

Posted by: No One Will Do May 7 2009, 10:07 PM
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 3 2009, 05:39 PM)
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 3 2009, 02:53 AM)
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 2 2009, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 2 2009, 01:31 PM)
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 1 2009, 04:39 PM)
It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen.  It has tainted my opinion of him.

maryluvs_excl.gif I love Al but was pissed at him back then.. maryluvs_laughing.gif It just seemed as though he was discombobulated on what to do; President Clinton advised him on how he shoulda proceeded basically to fight anyway I was mad at Kerry for a long time for the same reasons but I'm over both now.


First of all, I respectfully disagree with both points.

I just don't understand what Gore and Kerry were to do. Gore took it to the SC and asked that no senator challenge the results. The Kerry/Edwards campaign stayed involved in the Ohio lawsuits.

What were they supposed to do if the Democratic Party wouldn't support them or back them up? The big difference is that Democrats (like Kerry, et. al) stood with Obama unlike the last two times (i.e. many sided with Bush), and the GOP was/is at an all time low. People are not buying the media lies/spin or smear campaigns anymore.

They would have been left out on their own and slaughtered by their party and media as sore losers or angry nutcases. Plus, they were stuck with a disorganized party infrastructure and people (Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, Team Clinton) who were more focused on Hillary running in 08 than winning. Thankfully, Obama had a DNC Chairman in Dean who focused rebuilding the party infrastructure (both local/state level) and protecting, securing the vote.

I didn't like the concessions either, but I still don't understand why people are letting the entire Democratic Party, McAuliffe, Carville, etc, off the hook and blaming ONLY Gore and Kerry. They failed the party and the voters.

I am getting a little tired of those talking points and revisionist history being repeated.

In addition to all his talents, Obama is now president because he had easier path to the WH. Thanks to DNC head Dean rebuilding state and local party infrastructure, Democrats winning seats in 2006, and a public fed up with everything GOP.

Those are the facts period.


Like it or not, Kerry is positioned to be an influential senator (crafting foreign policy as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee), and a top ally to President Obama.

I am glad that he and his wife Teresa care enough to focus on aid and peace in Darfur.

I am glad that Gore cares enough about our planet and climate change.

I am glad that First Lady Michelle Obama cares enough about Youthbuild making a difference in young people's lives.

I am glad President Obama cares enough to see high speed rail as the new transportation in America (just like in Europe).

Yep. The Obamas are so over Gore and Kerry. Really.


Sorry, Kerry is not going away. Neither is Gore. They may not have Obama and/or Biden's cool, rock star personalities, or act like attention whores (like a former Dem president), but I appreciate them having the "balls" to endure one of the worst smear campaigns in history, media hit jobs, and NO Democratic party support to get back up, work hard, keep fighting for what's right, and help to make this country better again.

That is called integrity and it is sad that people do not recognize or see that.

That's funny. McCain lost in a landslide, yet he gets treated like a king by members of his own party, the media, and Obama himself, while Gore and Kerry, who lost by only one vote and one state (Florida and Ohio) are continuously treated like trash by their own party and media. No one has told McCain to "lay low" or said "I am over him now" just because he didn't win or do what they wanted him to do.

I am glad that Gore and Kerry are going to help President Obama out or behind the scenes. So, I am not over them just because they didn't do what I or we wanted them to do. And I will not be over Obama because he won't do what I want him to do.

NO politician is perfect, if anyone thinks that, they are doomed for disappointment.

I am not over anyone that is trying to do the right thing and help people. That is what's important right now.

Sorry people here are.

Ok, I re-read what I typed and realized it may have been interpreted differently than the spirit in which I tried to give it so I'd like to clarify. I mentioned at the beginning that I loved Al Gore, I just had a difference of opinion on how he handled the 2000 election; when I said I was over both I wasn't referring to Al or J. Kerry, I only meant I was over being mad about those situations and I had moved on not meaning from them. I still basically feel that both could handled things differently in those elections but we all have things we wish we could do-over so although I'm not mad about them or those situations anymore; I agree we can respectfully disagree on that in terms of other courses of action that could have been taken but it's water waaaay under the bridge. maryluvs_smile.gif

I know that everything happens for a reason and I absolutely respect the work that Al, John, and Teresa have and are doing; and whole heartedly agree that NO politician is perfect their just people too maryluvs_laughing.gif. Speaking of imperfect politicians my heart goes out to Elizabeth Edwards, maryluvs_sad.gif now her husband I won't go into how I would have felt had he won and all of his linen eventually came to light in the midst of a run to the White House but thank goodness the sun rises and brings a new day everyday.. maryluvs_smile.gif

Hi Kiki,

I am so sorry for taking you and Tony's comments out of context.

I usually don't vent like that. I am thin-skinned (and trying to get help for that problem).

I was reacting to a poster (a Clinton supporter) at a popular Democratic, Progressive message board (not Daily Kos or Jack & Jill Politics) who mentioned that Barack and Hillary showed that they really wanted the presidency bad enough and Al and John did not. There was a poster that spent time on the ground in 04 and smacked that argument down. Gore or Kerry would not have campaigned sick or late in to election eve night if they didn't want it. I understand the Skulls and Bones theories people believe about Kerry "throwing the election."

I hear a lot of people still complain about will never forgiving one or the other for walking away, yet turn around and support others that have been silent on the issue of voting rights, election protection.

I saw C-SPAN and a different picture that the mainstream cable news media didn't show. And people who were on the ground attending the rallies saw energy and enthusiasm from the candidates.

I took that posters comment (not yours. maryluvs_smile.gif) as a slam on Gore and Kerry in an effort to praise Hillary and Obama.

I read a lot of those arguments from some (not all) of their supporters. Not one of them could explain how Obama could have won in 04 (even though he was running for Senate in IL) with a vaunted Rovian machine, an incumbent wartime president with an approval rating around 50%, Democrats siding with Bush or just looking towards the future, poor DNC infrastructure, and a fear-minded public post 9/11.

I will agree that winning in 04 was a longshot. And with Katrina, Iraq Civil War, the economic downturn, corruption in 06, etc. it became clear the next president was going to be a Democrat.

And even though Hillary is now Secretary of State, some of her supporters still argue that had she stayed in the Senate, she would have been a Liberal Tiger (to rival Kennedy as the Liberal Lion), but still can not name one significant legislation or decision she led on as Senator from NY. So, it was a good, political move by Obama to name her as SOS IMO.

I look at having at Gore and Kerry's "losses" and having President Obama as things happening for a reason.

Though the country is still a mess maryluvs_smh.gif, Obama is positioned to have a filabuster proof Senate (if and when they get the kinks out), nominate his first SCJ, get his agenda through a Democratic controlled congress (watch out for them Blue Dog Dems though). Plus, it allowed Americans to see how really, really bad Bush was. They are no longer buying what the GOP is selling. They now understand that Obama inherited this mess and see he is trying to fix it.

That would have been impossible for Gore or Kerry had they won, even though they would have made good presidents and many of those disasters (i.e. Katrina, etc.) wouldn't have been exposed, but Obama has a good chance to be a solid (maybe the best ever?) president. I am sure they are both satisfied to see history being made. maryluvs_smile.gif

The previous elections were hard, sometimes painful for those involved. Some mourned for days, months, even years until the next election. I agree that mistakes were made. Things could have been handled differently. Votes could have been voted differently. Words could have been spoken differently. Obama was able to learn from those mistakes and build a solid foundation.

And yes, our hearts go out to Elizabeth Edwards and the family. This sounds like a sad situation for everyone involved. maryluvs_sad.gif Thank goodness the Dem voters got it right and chose real change.

Even though I not a political junkie, I am always careful not to put politicians on a pedastal or see them as saviors. The only savior is Jesus Christ. He is bigger than any person or anything this world.

Just in case you are wondering, I am not a Gore or Kerry apologist. I was semi chastised (sometimes I got perceived as being Anti-Kerry) by people for hoping that he gets more reognition as a Senator than SOS, but it was met with "He'll be fine, so deal with it." It was from people of MA. I can understand wanting to keep him given Kennedy's health situation and all. maryluvs_sad.gif. But he, Gore, and everyone else are doing good work right now, so it's all good.


Thanks for clearing that up. Apologies for the over the top response. I will go back and edit the previous post.


I am ready to look ahead now. maryluvs_smile.gif

maryluvs_laughing.gif Honestly, not a big deal it's ok to be frustrated sometimes and I should have chosen my words more carefully...no harm, no foul...
I'm just glad it's finally my Friday and I have a 3 day weekend! maryluvs_cheer.gif maryluvs_bye1.gif

Posted by: Code Orange May 11 2009, 11:15 AM
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 7 2009, 08:57 PM)
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 3 2009, 05:39 PM)
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 3 2009, 02:53 AM)
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 2 2009, 04:44 PM)
QUOTE (Kiki Rose @ May 2 2009, 01:31 PM)
QUOTE (Wee Tony @ May 1 2009, 04:39 PM)
It has always annoyed me that Gore didn't have the balls to do that.

He seemed more concerned about being seen as a sore loser than standing up for those who had their votes stolen.  It has tainted my opinion of him.

maryluvs_excl.gif I love Al but was pissed at him back then.. maryluvs_laughing.gif It just seemed as though he was discombobulated on what to do; President Clinton advised him on how he shoulda proceeded basically to fight anyway I was mad at Kerry for a long time for the same reasons but I'm over both now.


First of all, I respectfully disagree with both points.

I just don't understand what Gore and Kerry were to do. Gore took it to the SC and asked that no senator challenge the results. The Kerry/Edwards campaign stayed involved in the Ohio lawsuits.

What were they supposed to do if the Democratic Party wouldn't support them or back them up? The big difference is that Democrats (like Kerry, et. al) stood with Obama unlike the last two times (i.e. many sided with Bush), and the GOP was/is at an all time low. People are not buying the media lies/spin or smear campaigns anymore.

They would have been left out on their own and slaughtered by their party and media as sore losers or angry nutcases. Plus, they were stuck with a disorganized party infrastructure and people (Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, Team Clinton) who were more focused on Hillary running in 08 than winning. Thankfully, Obama had a DNC Chairman in Dean who focused rebuilding the party infrastructure (both local/state level) and protecting, securing the vote.

I didn't like the concessions either, but I still don't understand why people are letting the entire Democratic Party, McAuliffe, Carville, etc, off the hook and blaming ONLY Gore and Kerry. They failed the party and the voters.

I am getting a little tired of those talking points and revisionist history being repeated.

In addition to all his talents, Obama is now president because he had easier path to the WH. Thanks to DNC head Dean rebuilding state and local party infrastructure, Democrats winning seats in 2006, and a public fed up with everything GOP.

Those are the facts period.


Like it or not, Kerry is positioned to be an influential senator (crafting foreign policy as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee), and a top ally to President Obama.

I am glad that he and his wife Teresa care enough to focus on aid and peace in Darfur.

I am glad that Gore cares enough about our planet and climate change.

I am glad that First Lady Michelle Obama cares enough about Youthbuild making a difference in young people's lives.

I am glad President Obama cares enough to see high speed rail as the new transportation in America (just like in Europe).

Yep. The Obamas are so over Gore and Kerry. Really.


Sorry, Kerry is not going away. Neither is Gore. They may not have Obama and/or Biden's cool, rock star personalities, or act like attention whores (like a former Dem president), but I appreciate them having the "balls" to endure one of the worst smear campaigns in history, media hit jobs, and NO Democratic party support to get back up, work hard, keep fighting for what's right, and help to make this country better again.

That is called integrity and it is sad that people do not recognize or see that.

That's funny. McCain lost in a landslide, yet he gets treated like a king by members of his own party, the media, and Obama himself, while Gore and Kerry, who lost by only one vote and one state (Florida and Ohio) are continuously treated like trash by their own party and media. No one has told McCain to "lay low" or said "I am over him now" just because he didn't win or do what they wanted him to do.

I am glad that Gore and Kerry are going to help President Obama out or behind the scenes. So, I am not over them just because they didn't do what I or we wanted them to do. And I will not be over Obama because he won't do what I want him to do.

NO politician is perfect, if anyone thinks that, they are doomed for disappointment.

I am not over anyone that is trying to do the right thing and help people. That is what's important right now.

Sorry people here are.

Ok, I re-read what I typed and realized it may have been interpreted differently than the spirit in which I tried to give it so I'd like to clarify. I mentioned at the beginning that I loved Al Gore, I just had a difference of opinion on how he handled the 2000 election; when I said I was over both I wasn't referring to Al or J. Kerry, I only meant I was over being mad about those situations and I had moved on not meaning from them. I still basically feel that both could handled things differently in those elections but we all have things we wish we could do-over so although I'm not mad about them or those situations anymore; I agree we can respectfully disagree on that in terms of other courses of action that could have been taken but it's water waaaay under the bridge. maryluvs_smile.gif

I know that everything happens for a reason and I absolutely respect the work that Al, John, and Teresa have and are doing; and whole heartedly agree that NO politician is perfect their just people too maryluvs_laughing.gif. Speaking of imperfect politicians my heart goes out to Elizabeth Edwards, maryluvs_sad.gif now her husband I won't go into how I would have felt had he won and all of his linen eventually came to light in the midst of a run to the White House but thank goodness the sun rises and brings a new day everyday.. maryluvs_smile.gif

Hi Kiki,

I am so sorry for taking you and Tony's comments out of context.

I usually don't vent like that. I am thin-skinned (and trying to get help for that problem).

I was reacting to a poster (a Clinton supporter) at a popular Democratic, Progressive message board (not Daily Kos or Jack & Jill Politics) who mentioned that Barack and Hillary showed that they really wanted the presidency bad enough and Al and John did not. There was a poster that spent time on the ground in 04 and smacked that argument down. Gore or Kerry would not have campaigned sick or late in to election eve night if they didn't want it. I understand the Skulls and Bones theories people believe about Kerry "throwing the election."

I hear a lot of people still complain about will never forgiving one or the other for walking away, yet turn around and support others that have been silent on the issue of voting rights, election protection.

I saw C-SPAN and a different picture that the mainstream cable news media didn't show. And people who were on the ground attending the rallies saw energy and enthusiasm from the candidates.

I took that posters comment (not yours. maryluvs_smile.gif) as a slam on Gore and Kerry in an effort to praise Hillary and Obama.

I read a lot of those arguments from some (not all) of their supporters. Not one of them could explain how Obama could have won in 04 (even though he was running for Senate in IL) with a vaunted Rovian machine, an incumbent wartime president with an approval rating around 50%, Democrats siding with Bush or just looking towards the future, poor DNC infrastructure, and a fear-minded public post 9/11.

I will agree that winning in 04 was a longshot. And with Katrina, Iraq Civil War, the economic downturn, corruption in 06, etc. it became clear the next president was going to be a Democrat.

And even though Hillary is now Secretary of State, some of her supporters still argue that had she stayed in the Senate, she would have been a Liberal Tiger (to rival Kennedy as the Liberal Lion), but still can not name one significant legislation or decision she led on as Senator from NY. So, it was a good, political move by Obama to name her as SOS IMO.

I look at having at Gore and Kerry's "losses" and having President Obama as things happening for a reason.

Though the country is still a mess maryluvs_smh.gif, Obama is positioned to have a filabuster proof Senate (if and when they get the kinks out), nominate his first SCJ, get his agenda through a Democratic controlled congress (watch out for them Blue Dog Dems though). Plus, it allowed Americans to see how really, really bad Bush was. They are no longer buying what the GOP is selling. They now understand that Obama inherited this mess and see he is trying to fix it.

That would have been impossible for Gore or Kerry had they won, even though they would have made good presidents and many of those disasters (i.e. Katrina, etc.) wouldn't have been exposed, but Obama has a good chance to be a solid (maybe the best ever?) president. I am sure they are both satisfied to see history being made. maryluvs_smile.gif

The previous elections were hard, sometimes painful for those involved. Some mourned for days, months, even years until the next election. I agree that mistakes were made. Things could have been handled differently. Votes could have been voted differently. Words could have been spoken differently. Obama was able to learn from those mistakes and build a solid foundation.

And yes, our hearts go out to Elizabeth Edwards and the family. This sounds like a sad situation for everyone involved. maryluvs_sad.gif Thank goodness the Dem voters got it right and chose real change.

Even though I not a political junkie, I am always careful not to put politicians on a pedastal or see them as saviors. The only savior is Jesus Christ. He is bigger than any person or anything this world.

Just in case you are wondering, I am not a Gore or Kerry apologist. I was semi chastised (sometimes I got perceived as being Anti-Kerry) by people for hoping that he gets more reognition as a Senator than SOS, but it was met with "He'll be fine, so deal with it." It was from people of MA. I can understand wanting to keep him given Kennedy's health situation and all. maryluvs_sad.gif. But he, Gore, and everyone else are doing good work right now, so it's all good.


Thanks for clearing that up. Apologies for the over the top response. I will go back and edit the previous post.


I am ready to look ahead now. maryluvs_smile.gif

maryluvs_laughing.gif Honestly, not a big deal it's ok to be frustrated sometimes and I should have chosen my words more carefully...no harm, no foul...
I'm just glad it's finally my Friday and I have a 3 day weekend! maryluvs_cheer.gif maryluvs_bye1.gif

It's all good. My bad. (smacks head, says "duh").

Hope you had a nice Mother's Day. maryluvs_bye1.gif

Posted by: Wee Tony May 12 2009, 01:32 PM
QUOTE (Code Orange @ May 11 2009, 04:05 PM)


Hope you had a nice Mother's Day. maryluvs_bye1.gif

maryluvs_scare.gif FUCK!!
It was mother's day?!?! maryluvs_omg.gif

I'm so feckin dead... unsure.gif

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